Category rating

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Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:59 pm

CAT I -
CAT II -
CAT III -
CAT IV -
CAT V -

I'm suggesting we use this Pilot Ranking system. Johnathon & Rob, if you can suggest what to add after those categories? Let's say for example: CAT I pilots fly this and that ... though I would recommend that the minimum of CAT II is for our main operations, while those in CAT I are still in the flight academy?

So for example: CAT II - A330 CAT III - A340 CAT IV - 777 all types CAT V - A380! That's just my thought tho, but I wouldn't recommend limiting one to something. Especially when you say that he's only eligible to fly this Airbus model ... I mean what if this guy doesn't have any decent Airbus models for his FS platform or if he's not an Airbus fun and is disgusted with Airbus aircrafts and prefer Boeing? Think about it. This way it's uniformed and it's not fly everything you want, as said; we want to ensure professionalism and well education in terms of aviation, flying and airspace understanding itself is well observed.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Robert Kurtz on Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:30 pm

Since EK doesn't have any turboprops, or narrow bodies, I don't know about that type system. As it is difficult to restrict I propose something like this:

CAT I - No specific EKv airframe training (only basic into to flight). Open to fly any route. ONLY authorized for CATI ILS.
CAT IIa - Formal EKv training for Airbus airframes, excluding A380. CATIII ILS authorized Airbus airframes only, excluding A380.
CAT IIb - Formal EKv trainging for Boeing airframes. CATIII ILS authorized Boeing Airframes only.
CAT IIc - Formal EKv training for all Airbus airframes. CATIII ILS authorized all Airbus airframes only.
CAT III - Formal EKv training for both Airbus and Boeing Airframes, excluding A380. CATIII ILS authorized all types, excluding A380.
CAT IV - Formal EKv training for all EKv airframes. No restrictions apply to this pilot.

Senior Instructor will hold CATIV rating. Airbus instructors must hold at least CATIII rating, CATIIa upon consideration of Senior Instructor and CEO or COO.

Or something like that. We've got plenty of time to work out the kinks! Also, the restriction may not only be the ILS Category, that is merely an example...albiet a good example I think. Razz

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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:22 am

I'm kind of confused in that scheme, Robert.

Why would there be a need of CAT IIC if there's already CAT IIA, basically they are almost the same except for the A380 exclusion. Then if we're just giving space for the A380, then just make the CAT IIA for All airbus airframes except for the A380, then on CAT IIC is left for A380 trainings and CAT IIB shall remain the same. Is that agreeable? So CAT IIA All airbus airframes, CAT IIB All boeing airframes and CAT IIC is for A380 training only. Since A380 is the biggest in our fleet and they I'm sure they also have another scheme for their A380 ... well in the real world I believe they have what you call "seniority" since we don't have that in the virtual world, then we'll just leave the A380 on the last (CAT IIC).

Then if we're going for this CAT II scheme category, then what's left for the CAT III? It sounds complicated to me, or do I not understand? Laughing Emirates are using Boeing & Airbus aircraft, which are all CAT3 ILS authorized, right? So I propose something like Robert's concept:

CAT I - No Aircraft & Route restriction applies to this pilot.
CAT IIA - Formal EKv training for Airbus Airframes. CAT3 ILS authorized flight crew;
CAT IIB - Formal EKv training for Boeing Airframes. CAT3 ILS authorized flight crew;
CAT III - Formal A380 training. CAT3 ILS authorized
CAT IV - NO restriction applies to this pilot.

Airbus & Boeing instructors shall hold at least CAT III rating while Senior Instructors shall hold a CAT IV rating. Since there's 2 category II rating A & B, then we will give them option of course. Here's what I have in mind: before one should be promoted from CAT I, he/she shall choose between the 2 programs; A or B. Assuming this pilot would like to fly a Boeing, so he picked CAT IIB program. He will then begin with his training for his type rating. CAT IIB pilots are not eligible to fly a CAT IIA aircraft, if the pilot does so; this PIREP will be rejected by the system. How about something like this?

I know the 777 is a CAT3 certified aircraft, right? And so are our Airbus fleet as far as I know. In that case, then I suggest we include CAT 1 2 3 ILS operations together in the package. So before one is taught to operate a CAT 3 landing, then one must undergo trainings for his CAT 1-2 rating. Know what I mean? So together in the package, it's already understood that CAT 1 & 2 is included before CAT 3 ILS authorization. So it's like 3 in 1 package, that simple. This way, it'll make it efficient and convenient for them. Even if we restrict them from performing CAT3 ILS operations, I'm sure we can't get an eye on their cockpit on how do they do it around. Unless we have a virtual cockpit audition, just like they do have in the real world.

To identify if this pilot is already CAT 3 ILS authorized, we shall keep a track record from our respective instructors. Or have something in their flight id like (only to be seen in our roster): UAE200 , CATIIB[1] , Romano Lara. This means, I'm already a CATIIB pilot but not yet authorized for CAT 2 & 3 ILS operations. If one is already authorized for all operations then it should be [3] in there. That's just my idea though. Last question is, are we going to have a checkride for this one? It maybe a little complicated if we're going to have a checkride for this, maybe just a 10-20 item questions for this shall do. It's up to them if they're going to put what they've learned into practice. That's our restriction, we can't get our eye on them everytime.

OR

Shall we not include this whole ILS category thing? Maybe just a simple category rating for each aircraft that'll just need an exam to get through. Cause it may become really complicated from some, so to make it simple yet professional I propose something like this:

CAT I - No Route & Aircraft restriction applies to this pilot.
CAT IIA** - Formal EKv training for Airbus Airframes, excluding A380.
CAT IIB** - Formal EKv training for Boeing 777.*
CAT III** - Formal EKv training for A380.
CAT IV - NO restriction applies to this pilot.

To be promoted from this category rating to another, one must take a written exam which consist of 20-30 questions. This way, professionalism is well observed and so our pilots to be up to standard. Given that none except our pilots wave our colors, so all things possible to ensure that they are well educated (in terms of operations and the right way to do things) within our VA, this is a job for our Training Department.

*Since there's no other Boeing in our fleet except for the 777, it shall be focused with the 777. We're talking about the mainline here not the Skycargo. So for Skycargo, there will be a different ranking and training scheme.

** Denotes that Pilot is still under training for the particular category rating. Until he/she is certified ** will be removed. (This will be observed on the roster). NOTE: Even though he/she is still under training, it doesn't restrict him/her to fly the aircraft that is within the given category rating. It just denotes that he/she is not yet a full pledge holder of the given category, and still under trainings.

But if I'm given the opportunity to choose, I would pick the 2nd scheme. It's more simple and not too complicated for them. Well for us, it come in easy; but for the vast majority of newbies who are joining VA's to learn, it may be complicated. With complication, it's enough to scare them away.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Johnathon Neilsen on Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:24 am

Why dont we do this a bit differently, CATI Junior FO is open to fly the B777-200 and A330-200. When the wish to apply for further course training, they can either select the Airbus training course or the Boeing training course. Then we place them in the appropriate training line.

Example

Jr. FO Limited to B777-200 and A330-200 airframes. Minimum hours before next rating: 35 hrs. When sending request for further training, must decide between either the Airbus or Boeing stream.

FO (Boeing) Can fly Assigned 777 or 747F airframes. Type rating required and will be assigned after sucessful completion of the Airframe Type Rating course. (Standard 20 Question test on Aircraft systems and standard operations, no checkrides at this stage.)

FO (Airbus) Can fly Assigned A330 or A340 airframes. Refer above.

Jr Captain (Boeing) Requires a minimum of 200 hours as a Junior FO and atleast one 777 Type Rating. Promotion to Junior Captain after sucessful completion of the Boeing Captain Training Course.

Jr. Captain (Airbus) Requires a minimum of 200 hours as a Junior FO and atleast one Airbus type rating, Promotion after sucessful completeion of the AIrbus Captain Training Course.

Senior Captain (Boeing) Requires a minimum of 550 hours as a Junior Captain and 3 777 Common Type Ratings. A request for promotion must be sent to the Boeing Fleet Training Captain and he or she will evaluate your performance on a selected route and will determine the outcome.

Senior Captain (Airbus) Requires a minimum of 550 hours as a Junior Captain and both A330 and A340 Common Type Ratings. A request for promotion must be sent to the Airbus Fleet Training Captain and he or she will evaluate your performance on a selected route and will determine the outcome. Once sucessful candidate may apply for the special A380 type rating.

The above is just an example, we could give a pilot direct entry to a certain rank if Experience permits, but they must prove they are capable of safely handling the plane and its systems. With this one the pilot can try out both airframes before making a definite commintment and finding out they dont want to fly these.

Pilots who wish to have a common type rating for Boeing and AIrbus airframes must be a Junior Captain and have over 120 hours expeirence in one stream.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:52 am

That sounds great as well, Johnathon. I like that scheme, simple but the professionalism is still maintained. Although I would suggest remove the call "Jr" for the Captain and just leave it as Captain instead then followed by the Senior Captain... Smile Jr. First Officer then First Officer is fine. I have another suggestion though. See below.

Entrants shall start as First Officer since we don't have any aircraft smaller than a heavy. So we'll have to start the ranking from FO; this entrant will be given the chance to choose whether he/she wants to fly an Airbus or Boeing. If the pilot choose Airbus, then he/she shall start with the A330-200, so on and so forth.

CAT II: A330-200 / 772(ER)

Minimum hours of 100 within the given airframe to be eligible for CAT III promotion.

CAT III: A340 / 773(ER)(F)

Minimum hours of 200 within the given airframe to be eligible for CAT IV promotion.

CAT IV: A380 / 747F

**ALL Pilots shall undergo a written exam to advance from their current rating. Before being promoted to CAT IV, one must pass a written exam and a checkride.

Minimum hours of 500 within the given airframe to be eligible for CAT V promotion. CAT V rated pilot is eligible to fly all aircraft within our fleet. As for entrants with experience; minimum of 200 hours to start as a CAT III.

Notice there's 100 increments. Why? Our fleet consist of the biggies out there, what you want to fly is already in there. Unlike in other VA's they simply require you around 50 hours for promotion, because the fleet below is just for example: 737, 757 ... that's why most want's to advance as early as possible because they want to fly long hauls with their heavies. But in Emirates, with just a CAT II rating you can already start flying long hauls. We don't have a 737 around anyway, our smallest is the A330 nothing else below.

Now how about Codeshare flights? Just like for a flight from Dubai to London Heathrow; there's no direct flight from DXB to LHR, there's a connection flight with BA. We can work on that. Johnathon, Robert; maybe we can think of something so it'll match the approved ranking scheme.

Something like: (Codeshare fleet)

CAT II: A320 etc
CAT III: ....
CAT IV: ....

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Re: Category rating

Post  Robert Kurtz on Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:54 pm

I think Johns example is as perfect as it is going to get. My issue with ranking here lies within the fact that we are limited with aircraft types. We cannot start new pilots on EMBs and DH8s then move them up into 737s, then into 777s. We only have widebodies. Our pilots are going to be starting out in the biggest most complex aircraft out there. We can't fully rely on aircraft as incentive for pilots to progress. Plus you have to think about this. Users might not have all types of 777. So say, again, they only have a 777-200. So even when they are allowed to fly 777-300 routes, they are still flying the same aircraft in the sim. Nothing has changed for them at all. So there is not much incentive to put in 200 hours of time. Also 100 hours is a heck of a long time to set in the junior/trainee/entry slot. I think that wil put off more than a few potential pilots. I'd say 50 hours max to promotion, 35 is perfect, though.

Also, I think that having both Boeing, and Airbus branches will produce more competent pilots. I see it as a natural progression, and it is much more true to real life protocol. Giving the FOs either the 747 or A340 upon promotion will offer incentive. Which is great. This will make it work.

I agree with Romano, though. I think "jr" should be dropped from "Jr Captain". If I still had "Jr" in my title at 490 hours, I'd be less than happy.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:28 pm

This is nice, I gotta agree as well. So from Jr. FO, their going to need 35 hours to be promoted to FO (Airbus/Boeing) then to be promoted from FO to Captain, they're going to need to finish the type-rating course and answer a questionnaire that consist of 20 questions? Can someone clarify this... If I thought it right, this is just perfect!

If this is perfect, if we're going to do so. I want to be more focussed on the Training Department. This will ensure quality training for them ... yes, my focus if this will the ranking scheme is the Training Department. We shall ensure QUALITY education is observed for our pilots, especially to newbies. Those who want's to bypass the TRAINING course shall inform our training department given that they have real world experience, upon verifying his real world experience, he/she shall still be given the 20 questionnaire, the only he/she will exempted of is the TRAINING program itself.

How about something like that?

Why do I want a quality training department? Because, in the near future I am thinking of having partnership with the VATSIM Pilot Rating program, just so I'm working on with Thailand (VATTHD, VATSEA). With quality based Training, deep professionalism of operations behind the scene is observed. I hope you understand my concern. But we will need to touch Johnathon's ranking scheme first... with the 3 of us, we're going to make it suit the training program.

I propose something similar:

CAT II - Limited only to the 772/A332 airframes. Requires verifiable 35 hours with the assigned airframe to be promoted to CAT IIIA/B.

CAT IIIB - Can fly assigned 777 or 747F assigned airframe. Upon successful completion of the type rating course, and answer the promotion exam that consist of 20 questions; pilot will be promoted to CAT IV.

CAT IIIA - Can fly assigned Airbus airframes (A330, A340, A380). Upon successful completion of the type rating course, and answer the promotion exam that consist of 20 questions; pilot will be promoted to CAT IV.

CAT IV - This category requires 550 hours verifiable hours as CAT III (Airbus or Boeing stream); upon verification, the pilot will undergo an evaluation test (30/50 items) to ensure that the training course he/she graduated from CAT III is well applied. Upon passing the evaluation test, he/she will then undergo an interview with our Senior Instructor for an oral evaluation. After successfully passing the procedures, this pilot will then be promoted from CAT III to CAT IV equivalent of Senior Captain.

Instructors shall hold a CAT IV rating. To be promoted as Senior Instructor; this will need recommendation from the Executive Staff or from the VP-Training, this will be thoroughly reviewed given that the Instructor has a good background and well active on the forums for assistance and overall active with the training activity.

What do you think about this guys?

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Re: Category rating

Post  Johnathon Neilsen on Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:09 am

I think we should just stick to the basis of my idea, which you both have agreed upon.

We can change it around a a little.

After the Trainee phase, the pilot then can move onto either the Boeing or Airbus stream. In the Boeing stream thye either select the B777 or B747F type rating course. They then hold a type rating for all versions of that aircraft upon sucessful completion of the Type Rating course.

FOr the Airbus course the A330 and A340 courses can be combined to offer a Common Type Rating (CTR) for Both Aircraft. After completion the candidate must be a Captin with atleast 100 Authorised Airbus hours* before requesting the A380 Type Rating Course.

*100 Authorisesd hours is when the pilot has flown 100 Airbus hours FOR EK Virtual. Prior experience is discounted. Includes Trainee time.

Trainee - 0-35 hours - No Tests or checkrides
Junior First Officer - 36-99 hours - Type Rating test, pass required.
First Officer - 100-150 - COmmon Knowledge test
Captain - 151-399 hours - Questionaire on skills and systems. (Rank is A380 eligible.)
Senior Captain - 400+hours - Checkride in prefered airframe.

Hmm, just off the top of my head.... What a Face

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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:30 am

You have my vote now, Johnathon. I just want to add up things and confirmation with some stuffs:

Trainee to Jr. First Officer: requires at least 40-100 verifiable hours as Trainee, then must undergo the Type Rating Course and then later finish the Type Rating Exam (check ride & written).

Jr. First Officer to First Officer: requires at least 100-150 verifiable hours as Jr. First Officer, and at least score 80% on the Common Knowledge Exam.

First Officer to Captain: requires at least 160-400 verifiable hours as First Officer and must take a written exam (skills & systems), this rank is also A380 eligible.

Senior Captain: requires 600+ verifiable hours as a Captain and must have a recommendation from VP-Operations or Domicile Manager & a member in good standing. Sr. Captain is the highest non-staff position. This pilot is also eligible for Instructor promotion if willing.

Can we have something like this? I increased the required flight hours from Captain to Senior Captain to 600, since it's the highest non-staff position. By the title itself, Senior. It doesn't make one Senior after 100 hours of flying. I can accumulate 100 hours in just 10 days of continuous flying, so I made it 600 instead. But without a recommendation, the pilot is not yet eligible to be subject for promotion even if he/she already have more than 600 hours. It's a job for the VP-Operations or Domicile Manager to monitor each Pilots performance.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Johnathon Neilsen on Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:33 am

ROmano,

The hours I posted are for that Rank itself. ie 36-99 for Jr FO 100-149 for FO etc... after thos hours they may then request a higher rank. As RObert said before, 100 is way too much to ask of a trainee.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:13 am

Alright so here's a new one similar to Johnathon's basis:

Trainee: To be eligible for a promotion request to Jr. First Officer the Pilot must have 50 verifiable hours, either on the 772 or A330-200.

Jr. First Officer: Aircraft allowed for this rank; 777 for the Boeing stream and A330 & A340 for the Airbus stream. To be eligible for a promotion request to First Officer the Pilot must have at least 60-100 verifiable hours on his/her assigned airframe & must score at least 80% on the Type Rating Exam (check ride & written).

First Officer: Aircraft allowed for this rank; 777/744F & A330/A340 To be eligible for a promotion request to Captain the Pilot must have 150-200 verifiable hours on his/her assigned airframe & must pass the Common Knowledge Exam. (777/744F & A330/A340)

Captain: Aircraft allowed for this rank; 777/744F & A330/A340 or A380. To be eligible for a promotion request to Senior Captain the Pilot must have 500+ verifiable hours on his/her assigned airframe (777/744F, A330/A340 or A380) & and must pass the check ride for his/her preferred airframe, an addition to that; the Pilot must have a recommendation from the VP-Operations or his Domicile Manager ... since the Sr. Captain is the highest non-staff position for a member. This Pilot must also show activeness in our forums and in guiding our younger members or those who are in need of assistance. But the most important is, a member in good standing.

Senior Captain: No further ranks available after this. This Pilot is then allowed to fly any aircraft within our fleet, no restriction applies. This Pilot is also eligible to apply as an Instructor, though Instructor application will be directly handled by the Training Department.

As also mentioned the A330 & A340 will have a Common Type Rating just like it does happen in the real world. As far as I know in the real world, to be an A340 type rated from the A330 the Pilot must just add around 40 sim hours. That's how it works in Philippine Airlines, though.

So to make the structure illustration simple, see below:

Trainee: Restricted to 772 or A332 airframes.

After 50 hours promoted to

Jr. First Officer (Airbus): A330 & A340
Jr. First Officer (Boeing): 777

After 60-100 hours and passing the type rating exam of the preferred airframe (check ride & written) promoted to

First Officer (Airbus): A330 & A340
First Officer (Boeing): 777 & 744F

After 150-200 hours and passing the common knowledge exam promoted to

Captain (Airbus): A330, A340 & A380
Captain (Boeing): 777 & 744F

After 500+ hours and passing the preferred airframe check ride and must have a recommendation from VP-Operations or Domicile Manager. How to get a recommendation? See above.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Johnathon Neilsen on Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:35 am

The Trainee maximum hours will be 35 please. 50 Just seems unrealistic for it and 35 is the optimum amount of time to decide. And your not promoted straightaway to Jr FO, you need to take the type test and then fly it.

Thats why I suggested we stick to my modified original one, as it maintains professionalism and simplicity in the one package.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:55 am

Apologies but I got confused. I thought there's no type rating test required for Trainee to Jr. First Officer promotion. Then we'll use your original basis, though I touched a few lines.

Upon approval of application the pilot can either fly the 772 or A332.

Trainee: To be eligible for promotion request to Jr. First Officer, the pilot must have 35 verifiable hours and pass the type rating test (written & a check ride).

Upon promotion to Jr. First Officer the pilot will then have to choose what aircraft to fly. Either the Boeing or Airbus stream. (B - 777 A - A330/A340)

Jr. First Officer: To be eligible for promotion request to First Officer, the pilot must have 36-149 verifiable hours within the assigned airframe and must pass the type rating test (written).

Upon promotion to First Officer the pilot will then have to choose what aircraft to fly. Either the Boeing or Airbus stream. (B - 777/744F A - A330/A340)

First Officer: To be eligible for promotion request to Captain, the pilot must have 150-369 verifiable hours within the assigned airframe and must pass the type rating test (written & a check ride) and the common knowledge exam.

Upon promotion to Captain the pilot will then have to choose what aircraft to fly. Either the Boeing or Airbus stream. (B - 777/744F A - A330/A340/A380)

Captain: To be eligible for promotion request to Senior Captain, the pilot must have 370-599 verifiable hours within the assigned airframe and must have a recommendation either from the VP-Operation. To get a recommendation, the pilot must show willingness to help our less experienced members in terms of mentoring or assistance.

Upon promotion to Senior Captain the pilot is then allowed to fly all routes and aircraft within our fleet without any restrictions.

This pilot is also eligible for promotion as an Instructor upon application and evaluation of the Training Department.


EDIT: Edited some line above.


Last edited by Romano Lara on Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:55 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Category rating

Post  Johnathon Neilsen on Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:14 am

Thats alright, I wasnt getting angry.

Romano Lara wrote:

Upon approval of application the pilot will then have to chose what airframe to fly. Either the Boeing or Airbus stream. (B - 772 A - A332)

No. They can fly either the 777-200 and A330 upon application approval until they get 35 hours and then they pick the Boeing or Airbus streams.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:48 am

Fair enough. Any more objections, suggestions, violent reactions?

That one I posted above has basically the same basis as Johnathon's scheme. If no other suggestion, we will consider this as OFFICIAL. John has to sign it tho to make it OFFICIAL OFFICIAL. Smile

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Re: Category rating

Post  Johnathon Neilsen on Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:25 pm

Romano Lara wrote:

Upon approval of application the pilot can either fly the 772 or A332.

Trainee: To be eligible for promotion request to Jr. First Officer, the pilot must have 35 verifiable hours and pass the type rating test (written & a check ride).

Upon promotion to Jr. First Officer the pilot will then have to choose what aircraft to fly. Either the Boeing or Airbus stream. (B - 777 A - A330/A340)

Jr. First Officer: To be eligible for promotion request to First Officer, the pilot must have 36-149 verifiable hours within the assigned airframe and must pass the type rating test (written).

Upon promotion to First Officer the pilot will then have to choose what aircraft to fly. Either the Boeing or Airbus stream. (B - 777/744F A - A330/A340)

First Officer: To be eligible for promotion request to Captain, the pilot must have 150-369 verifiable hours within the assigned airframe and must pass the type rating test (written & a check ride) and the common knowledge exam.

Upon promotion to Captain the pilot will then have to choose what aircraft to fly. Either the Boeing or Airbus stream. (B - 777/744F A - A330/A340/A380)

Captain: To be eligible for promotion request to Senior Captain, the pilot must have 370-599 verifiable hours within the assigned airframe and must have a recommendation either from the VP-Operation. To get a recommendation, the pilot must show willingness to help our less experienced members in terms of mentoring or assistance.

Upon promotion to Senior Captain the pilot is then allowed to fly all routes and aircraft within our fleet without any restrictions.

This pilot is also eligible for promotion as an Instructor upon application and evaluation of the Training Department.



Signed: Johnathon Neilsen CEO EK Virtual
Date: 13th June 2009

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Re: Category rating

Post  Robert Kurtz on Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:54 pm

I don't have time right now to type this all out, but unfortunately, I think there are still some holes in this. A big one is having checkrides at 35 hours. That is going to take a lot of instructors to pull off. Like I said, I'll get into that more later.

I will propose this for right now, official titles:
Trainee
Junior First Officer
First Officer
Captain
Senior Captain

Chief Pilot <- Highest ranking pilot. Head of Instructors.
Senior Captain/CFII <- Instructor cabable of issuing tests and checkrides.
Captain/CFII <- Instructor cabable of issuing tests and checkrides.
Captain/CFI <- Mentor. NOT cabable of issuing tests or checkrides.
FO/CFI <- Mentor. NOT cabable of issuing tests or checkrides.

CFI/CFIIs will be appointed by VP-Ops [or above], only upon written recommendation of Chief Pilot.

There is no Senior Pilot/CFI. If a pilot wishes to pursue a career in training, he will be highly encouraged to become an instructor before promtion to Senior Pilot.

Also, we could have one Chief Pilot per hub, workload permitting. If we only need one, we will only have one. But we could have, say Chief Pilot/Dubai, and Chief PIlot/London.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Johnathon Neilsen on Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:58 pm

I must have missed that part, I didnt want a Checkride at Trainee->Jr FO. The onyl ones where a Checkride is required is at Jr FIrst Officer to First Officer and First Officer to Captain.

I agree Rob, that Intrusctor ranking is nicely done and I think we should do that. its simple yet very effective.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:34 pm

Oh I'm getting confused out here.

All signed materials will be recalled!! Further discussion will be on another thread.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:22 am

I like your idea, Robert. Having a Chief Pilot per domicile? Not possible, we only have Dubai and we will stick into that, though we can have a Chief Pilot for the whole VA, a different Chief Pilot will be appointed for the Logistics Division. I will propose something efficient yet professional, and maintains that goal of having realism, in combination with all the suggested scheme.

Trainee: Limited to 777-200 & A330-200 airframe, this pilot can fly either aircraft. No other restriction applies except this. To be eligible for a promotion request, this pilot must complete the following requirement(s): 35 logged hours on either airframe.

Jr. First Officer: This pilot is to choose what stream he/she will join in to: Airbus or Boeing stream. Upon selecting what stream to join in to, the pilot will be limited to his/her selected airframe for the given category; Airbus (A330 & A340) Boeing (777 & 744F). This pilot will also undergo the type rating course for his selected aircraft (aka TRAINING), under a supervision of a CFI/II. To be eligible for a promotion request, this pilot must complete the following requirement(s): 35-149 hours on the assigned airframe. Completed the type rating course under a supervision of a CFI/II & passed the type rating exam issued by a CFII (written & check ride) AND must hold his TYPE RATING for a specific aircraft.

First Officer: This pilot is to choose what stream he/she will join in to: Airbus or Boeing stream. Upon selecting what stream to join in to, the pilot will be limited to the selected aircraft for the given category; Airbus (A330 & A340) Boeing (777 & 744F). To be eligible for a promotion request, this pilot must complete the following requirement(s): 150-369 hours on the assigned aircraft. Complete & pass the re-test given by an Instructor.

Captain: This pilot is to choose what stream he/she will join in to: Airbus or Boeing stream. Upon selecting what stream to join in to, the pilot will be limited to the selected aircraft for the given category; Airbus (A330, A340 & A380) Boeing (777 & 744F). While on this rank, this pilot will also be given an invitation (from the Chief Pilot) to be a pilot mentor or instructor, if the pilot wishes to; he/she will undergo an interview with our VP-Training & Chief Pilot. To be eligible for a promotion request, this pilot must complete the following requirement(s): 350-600 hours on the assigned aircraft. Must hold a written recommendation from VP-Operations or from VP-Cargo Operations (if a Skycargo pilot), to be given a recommendation; this pilot must demonstrate professionalism activeness in terms of ONLINE presence and must be a member in good standing and must be clear of any disciplinary issues from the past 3 months, an addition to that; this pilot must also show that he/she is capable of counseling our younger member or those who are in need of assistance.

Senior Captain: Upon promotion to this rank, this pilot has already demonstrated all the requirements from his past ranks. To that, this pilot will be encourage IF willing to be an Instructor which is capable of issuing tests and check rides. Eligible to fly any aircraft on our fleet.

Chief Pilot <- Highest ranking pilot. Head of Instructors.
Senior Captain/CFII <- Instructor cabable of issuing tests and checkrides.
Captain/CFII <- Instructor cabable of issuing tests and checkrides.
Captain/CFI <- Mentor. NOT cabable of issuing tests or checkrides.


CFI/CFIIs will be appointed by VP-Ops, only upon recommendation of the Chief Pilot.

Type rating course will be conducted under a supervision of a CFI/II, although written exam and check rides will only be given by a CFII. First Officers aren't supposed to be a mentor yet. To be a Training Department personnel, the pilot must hold an invitation from the Chief Pilot and must meet all criteria set by the Training Department (VP-Training).

Alright, I have thought about this before I wrote it. So please, let's just sign this off and make it official. All of us here has the common goal, and that is PROFESSIONALISM. Yeah, believe it or not; that's my goal too! Shocked

So let's just consider this once in for all, okay? There's a lot of things to discuss over, and this is just a small part of it. The point here is an efficient scheme which is reachable for our pilot in terms of requirements & ENSURE that proper and quality training is given. Because the main gate to their training is this whole ranking scheme, which I'm basically constructing a few walks away from their doors ... know what I mean? Well, that's all.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Chris Claridge on Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:36 pm

I suggest a warning be put on the 744F, the route structure for that airframe is very limited and could be a big turn off for those unaware of what they're signing up for. Just my 2 cents.



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Re: Category rating

Post  Robert Kurtz on Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:52 pm

Chris,

To be honest this current setup just doesn't jive with me 100%. I'm going to write more soon, but I would really like to see a structure that models a more real world approach. And in that case, changing airframes would be a matter of getting type rated for what you want to transition into (provided you have a certain amount of hours in your previous airframe...we wouldn't want people switching all willy-nilly).

My biggest gripe is that most of these involve the same type rating (IRL). A 777-200 pilot can fly a 777-300ER, etc. So 777 = one single rating. 747 = one single rating, since we only have one type of 747 anyhow. And the A330 rating is the same as the A340 rating. Yes thats right, if you can fly an A330, you can fly an A340 and vice versa. There is literally one day of training to transition between the two in real life. So (IRL) there are three airframe ratings involved here. And just as in real life, the type of airframe rating you have has nothing to do with you rank or seniority within the company. That said, I understand why emirates choose the aircraft that they have. Because thier pilots can fly more than one airfarme...it saves them money. And I understand that we don't have to deal with an economy...or money at all.

But as far as getting a little closer to the point you brought up, Chris. I would say that something like:
1.1 Pilots are eligable to request a new airframe rating qualification after completeing all tests and checkrides and logging at least 50 hours in the current airfame. All applicable tests and checkrides must be performed for the new airframe rating.
1.2 Pilots may petition to Chief Pilot for a rating change before completing the required 50 hours. This is in place in case a pilots finds that a particular payware/freeware aircraft is of undesirable quality, etc. Upon findign good reason, using good judgement, Chief Pilot may approve/deny a new airframe rating before the requirement (1.1) are met.
Something similar to that (just a rough draft off the top of my head) would be how I would solve that problem, because I agree, that may be a problem...among many unforseen things.


Last edited by Robert Kurtz on Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Category rating

Post  Chris Claridge on Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:03 pm

That sounds like a step in the right direction Rob. At least give them a choice to switch (if the conditions are right). Sky Cargo will definitely be a niche group of pilots, one that I don't think many will be fond of, but could be the drawing factor for some.


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Re: Category rating

Post  Romano Lara on Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:01 am

I don't find that much of a difference in there from what I posted. It's not my plain idea but a combination from the previous suggestions ... if (Rob) you're talking about the common type rating, well yeah we could give that, and we will. So, the only think I find to change in there is the Trainee; instead of limiting them to the 777-200, we can let them fly all 777 variants. AND another thing, I won't agree with just 50 hours. Yes, it saves time; but have you ever seen a Captain with just 200 hours in total? No, I'm about seniority.

Whether you're a Jr. First Officer or First Officer, it doesn't limit you from doing anything. We're not limiting their choices, once holding the rank they can either fly both aircraft. But only that one he picked (ie. 777) will be logged ... so if the pilot flied the A340 and filed it, that wouldn't count for the promotion hours and only the selected aircraft will.

In line with that, it's going to be named as: Jr. First Officer 777; once given the title ONLY logged hours with the 777 will be logged. NOW, as your proposing the "rating shift" so to speak, yes we're going to allow that. And as you've said, it shall fall under the Chief Pilot's decision.

So to sum it all why we're demanding quite a lot of hours when there's no big difference in the fleet at all is because of the Seniority. We want to ensure that they're proficient enough and familiar with our SOP and other operations. Now looking at my post, pretty much it's all in there. Training and other stuffs we want to see...

We don't have to discuss this thing BIG TIME. The important thing is; QUALITY training is given and pilot proficiency is WELL & STRICTLY OBSERVED. Ratings is just the way to ensure this, not the subject at all.

As for amendments, Trainees will then be allowed to fly all 777 variants BUT as for Airbus, it's just the A330. Make them at least Jr. First Officer to fly the A340.... but HEY, I can do most of the flights I want with the 777 & A330. Looking for a longhaul flight, then the 777/A330 is yours.

Again, the Type Rating Course will start from the Jr. First Officer; see below. The Trainee rank is just the "familiarization" stage so to speak.

** **

Trainee: Limited to 777 & A330 airframe, this pilot can fly either aircraft. No other restriction applies except this. To be eligible for a promotion request, this pilot must complete the following requirement(s): 35 logged hours on either airframe.

Jr. First Officer: This pilot is to choose what stream he/she will join in to: Airbus or Boeing stream. Upon selecting what stream to join in to, the pilot will be limited to his/her selected airframe for the given category; Airbus (A330/A340) Boeing (777 & 744F). This pilot will also undergo the type rating course for his selected aircraft (aka TRAINING), under a supervision of a CFI/II. To be eligible for a promotion request, this pilot must complete the following requirement(s): 35-149 hours on the assigned airframe. Completed the type rating course under a supervision of a CFI/II & passed the type rating exam issued by a CFII (written & check ride) AND must hold his TYPE RATING for a specific aircraft.

First Officer: This pilot is to choose what stream he/she will join in to: Airbus or Boeing stream. Upon selecting what stream to join in to, the pilot will be limited to the selected aircraft for the given category; Airbus (A330/A340) Boeing (777 & 744F). To be eligible for a promotion request, this pilot must complete the following requirement(s): 150-369 hours on the assigned aircraft. Complete & pass the re-test given by an Instructor.

Captain: This pilot is to choose what stream he/she will join in to: Airbus or Boeing stream. Upon selecting what stream to join in to, the pilot will be limited to the selected aircraft for the given category; Airbus (A330/A340 & A380) Boeing (777 & 744F). While on this rank, this pilot will also be given an invitation (from the Chief Pilot) to be a pilot mentor or instructor, if the pilot wishes to; he/she will undergo an interview with our VP-Training & Chief Pilot. To be eligible for a promotion request, this pilot must complete the following requirement(s): 350-600 hours on the assigned aircraft. Must hold a written recommendation from VP-Operations or from VP-Cargo Operations (if a Skycargo pilot), to be given a recommendation; this pilot must demonstrate professionalism activeness in terms of ONLINE presence and must be a member in good standing and must be clear of any disciplinary issues from the past 3 months, an addition to that; this pilot must also show that he/she is capable of counseling our younger member or those who are in need of assistance.

Senior Captain: Upon promotion to this rank, this pilot has already demonstrated all the requirements from his past ranks. To that, this pilot will be encourage IF willing to be an Instructor which is capable of issuing tests and check rides. Eligible to fly any aircraft on our fleet.

** **

NOTE: A330 & A340 will have a Common Type Rating, this means that if the Pilot is A330 certified, he/she can fly both aircraft. Although the A380 will remain separate, A330/A340 Pilots can't fly the A380. If the Pilot is already a Captain and wishes to switch from the A330/A340 to the A380, he/she can then request the Chief Pilot for a rating shift. Simple; A380 Pilots are different from A330/A340 Pilots.

So can we just agree on this? As I have said, the most important thing for me in here is TRAINING; and the ranking scheme is just the way to make EVERYTHING organized.

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Re: Category rating

Post  Johnathon Neilsen on Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:14 am

Ok, I've given my two cents on the opinion. I'm leaving for you guys to decide as I'm not all that great with the Training stuff. Just send me over the final version and I'll include it in the SOP.

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Re: Category rating

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